4 Types of Leaders: Watching Out for the Dominating Leader | e84

Chris Wood: [00:00:00] Hey Jason, welcome back to Leading Us Serving.
Jason Kempf: What's going on, Chris?
Chris Wood: Oh, not a whole lot. How are you? I'm doing good. Yeah. Are you,
were you able to enjoy hanging out with
Jason Kempf: Mom? Oh yeah. Yeah. Good. We, our, our Mother's Day
traditions have changed over the year, but yeah, over the years, But, uh, yeah.
Yeah. The kids are getting older, so it, you know, it just kind of shifts things a little
bit.
Yeah, I bet, I bet. Yeah. That tension of, do I text my kids and say, Hey, don't
forget Mother's Day. Yeah. Don't, don't forget to text you or call your mom, or, I'm
like, you're kind of grown, right. So you, you can reap the consequences if you
want. Hey,
Chris Wood: if I give you my number, will you text me too from now on? No.
Jason Kempf: Make sure you call your mom. No, no. I mean, Last episode, we
talked about the supportive leader. I will not support you in that. Come on Jason.
I'm gonna be the dominating leader and take care of yourself, Chris, which we're
gonna talk about more here. And you're no fun. Absolutely not. Absolutely not.
No. I [00:01:00] got, I need somebody to, uh oh.
I was listening to a podcast, uh, squirrel. You know? Right. We listen to podcasts
around here, and they're talking about some business ideas they'd love to see
come to fruition. Okay. It's like the side hustle. Oh, pat Flynns. Um, no, not Pat
Flynn, um, the side Hustle guy. Anyway, whatever. We'll figure it out.
Right. Um, they're talking about just different business ideas, and one of them is
an accountability service that you tell them, here's what I want to have done in
the future. Yeah. And you hold me accountable. Really? Yeah. Yeah. So that
could be Mother's Day, or it could just be, hey, Did you return all your calls
today?
Yeah,
Chris Wood: I think I'm just gonna have my assistant help me. Did you
Jason Kempf: work out today, Chris? No. Did you eat healthy?
Chris Wood: No. No. I'm getting
Jason Kempf: closer though. I know it's coming around. Yeah. I mean, imagine
a paid service that you have somebody kinda like your personal train. Yeah.
Anyway, let's move on. How's that sound?
Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah. Happy Mother's Day to all your mothers out here.
There. Yes. You're [00:02:00] listening. And if you're listening to this going okra. I
forgot. It's never too late. Better late than never.
Chris Wood: Right. Go ahead and just hit pause and Yeah. Call your mom
Jason Kempf: when you find a bouquet of flowers or a present, which you're
gonna buy, um, whatever it is, just double it.
Yeah. And then double it again. It'll be good. No, seriously, uh, we, you know, we
all, we are thankful for all the moms out there cuz there's a lot of moms that are,
you know, doing the entrepreneur and for sure managing families and husbands.
I mean, you know, husbands are almost there, the kids Oh right. That's right.
And, you know, y'all do a great job and so hang in there. Yeah. Stay strong. So,
so,
Chris Wood: What are we talking about? I know we've started this mini-series.
Yeah. And I'm, I'm kind of curious about this, what this next one is. Okay. So,
because I'm trying to figure out what super negative this super negative
tendencies
Jason Kempf: are.
We talked about the protective leader last week Right? Right. Of being so
supportive, super relational that eventually it turns into [00:03:00] Ja Jekyll Hyde.
Right? Right. Okay. Today we're going across the map on this one. Okay. To
somebody who is not great at the relational encouragement. Side of things. Okay.
But they're really good at expectation, deadline challenge.
Mm-hmm. Like, Hey, here's where the business is going, here's where we're
going. I need you to step up. You get it done, and if you don't get it done, there
will be consequences. Mm-hmm. Okay. That's, that's an incredibly valuable skill
mm-hmm. In the business world. As a leader. Yeah. Okay. And the trick is that
we find a healthy balance of both that and the protective side.
Okay. Okay. Um, but this dominating leader is someone who, um, really just kind
of drives their people, drives their team, um, into the ground that it becomes this
negative side. Yeah. Like there is no, there is no relational aspect of, um, You
know, Hey, I, I believe in you. It's just you're here to serve the needs of the
business and my needs [00:04:00] and whatever I need.
Whatever I say goes. Mm-hmm. Okay. And so it becomes this dominating culture,
dominating team environment where people end up just kind of being like, I don't,
I don't want to work for this anymore. I don't wanna be a part. Right. Or if they are
stuck in this team or in stuck in this role that they start kind of figuring out ways to.
Do just enough to keep you off their back. Mm-hmm. You know, like, just to get
by. Like, what's the safe amount that, cuz I don't, I don't want to go so far that
you're like, oh. You could do all that. Well, I'm gonna give you more next quarter.
Right. You don't want to go that far. Right. But you don't want to, you, you wanna
fly under the radar.
Mm-hmm. You don't want to tick him off. Right. So what is, what is that happy
medium that I can get? Just enough done, but not too much. Mm-hmm. So that
he stays off my back, he or she stays off my back. Does that make sense? Yeah,
totally. Yeah, totally. And so there's just this culture of mistrust of like, what,
what?
Uh, you know, what am I running [00:05:00] into today? Mm-hmm. Am I, am I
gonna have the, you know, somewhat supportive, you know, that I'm getting it
done. Hey, good job on that. Mm-hmm. You know, they might, they may or may
not even come back around and say, good job. Yeah. They might just say, Hey,
you know, the team hit this, blah, blah, blah.
Done, move on. You know? Mm-hmm. There might not be any recap or
celebration. Yeah. You know, in the worst exp worst cultures of that. And so
again, is there,
Chris Wood: is there one of the five voices that kind of hits this. Has, it kind of
runs a long
Jason Kempf: list line? Well, sure. I mean like last, I'm just curious. No,
absolutely.
I mean like last week we said that we all have tendencies as a leader. Right. To
follow one side or the other on this. Right. Okay. And in general, and this is not a.
This is not a hundred percent No, no. Yeah, for sure. But in general, you're
gonna find like nurturers and connectors mm-hmm. Are gonna be really great at
the supporting side that we talked about last week.
Right. Because those are your relational voices. Mm-hmm. On the other side, the
task driven voices, your pioneer and your guardian. I
Chris Wood: was just think, I was wondering if those are [00:06:00] kind of had a
connection point, right?
Right.
Jason Kempf: Because guardians really care about, Getting everything done
right. They're trying to check the list off.
Right. They wanna make sure that we are valuing every step along the way,
getting it done and moving forward. Right. Um, pioneers value that competence
factor of we are going to win the day. Mm-hmm. And you're on the team because
I believe in you. I may never tell you. Right. But I believe in you and you're, I
Chris Wood: told you when you showed up because I hired you.
Right.
Jason Kempf: I hired you is all you need. Right. Right. You're on the team. Right.
Um, so yeah, absolutely. There're, you know, these, these, uh, the voices can
kind of lean one way or the other. And the creatives, that fifth voice, uh, there's a
creative pioneer voice mm-hmm. That will probably lean more like to the
challenge side.
Okay. To that dominating side. But you're, Creative connector, nurture, or blend
is gonna lean more to the relational, the supportive side. Okay. Okay. So the
creatives kind of can go both ways. Okay. But again, but it's not one for
Chris Wood: one. Yeah, I was gonna say this isn't perfect, but these, these
voices have, like the [00:07:00] guardian, um, pioneer voices have a tendency to
lean towards.
Jason Kempf: Right. The, because I, I, the checklist, I know two pioneer leaders
that I had no clue were pioneers. Really? Yeah. That they have learned to kind of
push that dominating aspect. Of their tendencies aside really, um, because
they've, I think they've had some nurturers kind of slap 'em around a little bit
going.
You're being kind of crappy right now. Right, right. You know, and you're, you're
sucking at life. So let's, let's get this under control here. You know? Um, which
kudo to those nurtures, right. You're standing up to a pioneer. Oh my goodness.
Right. Um,
Chris Wood: well, kudos to the, to the, to the pioneer to listen to the nurturer,
right?
I mean, like Right. There's a dynamic
Jason Kempf: there. Right. And so yeah, we're gonna lean one way or the other.
Mm-hmm. And this dominating leader, you know, you've, it's probably easy to
pick these out in our past mm-hmm. That we've worked for somebody like this, or
we've Right. Worked across the table, you know, in, on the same team with
people that even in the team, even though you're a [00:08:00] co-equal mm-hmm.
On the team, you know, position wise in the company, they still dominate the
team. And you are like, what, where does that come from? You know? Right.
And so it can really create this, um, Uh, this lack of belonging mm-hmm. Create
this, again, a culture of fear of like, what is happening? I don't, right. Am I safe?
Right. Because I may, you know, with a supportive leader, uh, with that protective
leader, you might not know which step is going to. Cost you your job. Mm-hmm.
Right. It's, it's an unknown, but it's very known. Mm-hmm. With the dominating
leader. If I don't make my numbers, if I don't get this done, my, I'm on the
chopping block.
Mm-hmm. I know it. And so they're, they're doing it just to get it done to your
satisfaction. Not done for what is really need needed in the organization.
Mm-hmm. Does that make sense for the greater good of the organization? Right.
This is what's gonna make them happy. Yeah. And so I'm gonna do it this
way.[00:09:00]
Hmm. Even, you know, and so they end up kind of mimicking that dominating
leader to an
Chris Wood: extent. Right. So they're burning and they're probably burning
people out. Right? I mean, that's like, that's what I think of, wouldn't they? Oh
yeah. Like, so you're just, you're burning and turning, like it's just Right. A matter
of, you know, if you don't like it, then you know, move on.
Mm-hmm. And I'll find somebody
Jason Kempf: else to fill the seat. Right. And so you lose effectiveness, you lose
efficiency as a team because of the turnover. Mm-hmm. That you're just burning
and churning through people going, well, if you can't get the job done, I will find
somebody who will. Right. And, and because of that turnover, you can never
develop mo momentum.
You can never develop that speed and efficiency of getting things done. Yeah.
We're on Because you're always having to retrain. Right. We're on the other side.
That protective leader, we didn't really mention this last time, is that the efficiency
really drops because it's all about the relationship. And so you just move at a
slower pace because the expectations and the clarity is not there.
Mm-hmm. Okay. So yeah, I mean, well, that's interesting. I mean, I, [00:10:00] an
unhealthy protector mm-hmm. Jumps to the other side of the map and come,
becomes a dominator when, when their expectations aren't met. Mm. Okay.
Remember, I, I, I think I told a story about my son and Right. You know, I just
kind of went Jekyll and Hyde.
It's because I went from protective to dominate. Mm-hmm. Because, you know,
um, and, but a dominating leader when, um, when they just get to the point of like,
Hey, we're not, we're not gonna get there. Mm-hmm. This, this, this team sucks. I
don't know what I'm doing. Mm-hmm. Will never succeed. They move toward the
abdicating leader role.
Which is what we're gonna talk about next week. Hmm. Wow.
Chris Wood: Yeah. There's a lot of facets to this. There is. There is. And I mean,
just trying to figure out what, what role you are and mm-hmm. What's the best
right way to come about
Jason Kempf: thinking about it and, and remembering this, that your tendencies
as a leader, whether it's protective or [00:11:00] dominating mm-hmm.
Are hugely valuable to your team and your organization mm-hmm. As a
dominating leader. Okay. You can take that too far and become dominating.
Right. But like we're gonna talk about here in the coming weeks is having that
balance of healthy support. And healthy challenge mm-hmm. Of having that
ability to make clear, um, expectations.
Right. Of like, Hey Chris, here's the project we're working on. Here's our
milestones along the way. Here's our deadlines. I think you can, I believe you can
get this done right. I trust your competence. I trust in your ability, we can get this
done. I'll be checking in with you along the way, making sure you have everything
you need.
Mm-hmm. So having that ability to make those very clear expectations. Is
incredibly valuable. Mm-hmm. But if that's all we do, we take it into an unhealthy
real. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. And so, um, don't, please don't hear
that in hearing your tendency as like, well, that's a bad tendency. I've gotta, right.
I've gotta change. No, [00:12:00] no, no, no, no. You've gotta harness your gold,
your talent, your ability in a healthy manner. Right. And learn to harness the other
side as well. Mm-hmm. And lean into that. Right?
Chris Wood: Yeah. And I'm so glad that you brought that up because I think that
we need to make sure that we understand that, you know, too much of one of
these tendencies creates different problems instead of keeping a balance of,
okay, that is great.
Mm-hmm. But make sure that you don't lose sight of this over here. Right? But at
the same time, you don't wanna go completely left completely, right? Because
Right. You go, you're, you know, you're. Dominating versus relational. Mm-hmm.
And then you've created, you, you're, you've created a problem, whether you're
all relational and no.
Do you know? No. You know, thinking about the goals of the company, right?
Like you were saying, like it just, even on relational side things, everything moves
so slow. I was glad you'd mentioned that because then. Everything is [00:13:00]
lost sight of what the bigger pitcher is. Well, right. We're not here to make friends,
folks.
Like, it's just, you know what I mean? Like, it's like you're there to get a job done
together as a team, so the relationship is naturally there because you're part of
the crew that's doing it. Right. But at the same time, telling 'em just to go get it
and knock it out, it's just not always the answer
Jason Kempf: either.
Yeah. I mean it's, it's very much a pendulum. From, you know, the two extremes.
If we sit on either extreme, it's gonna be unhealthy eventually, right? Um, and
finding that balance in the middle, I'm, would you agree
Chris Wood: two employees standing next to each other will, could potentially
react to either one of those positions, whether it's relational relationship or the
dominance or the, the, uh, goal effectiveness?
Jason Kempf: Right? A hundred percent.
Chris Wood: They're gonna both react to it today differently, right? So now not
only are you trying to deal with your own problems trying to make, figure out
where you lean towards, right? Mm-hmm. And trying to balance that out, but now
you're also trying to figure out how they're receiving it, right?
Right, right. So [00:14:00] now to try to create to the position of fighting for the
highest good of the people that we're working with, I have to figure out me trying
to effectively communicate it and then figure out how they're receiving it, because
they have a tendency as well. Right.
Jason Kempf: You're, I mean, you're hitting on it a hundred percent.
Like I'm spent I know, I know. And you know, we're barely, you know, 14 and a
half minutes in the podcast and we just went, you just solved the entire problem.
Right, right, right. Because even as leaders, you know, we have that tendency to
fall one side or the other. Right. But so do your people. Mm-hmm. And so if you
think about the person who leans toward challenge, they also want that from their
leaders, the relational side.
No, I mean, if you lean toward challenge mm-hmm. And that's more your
tendency of, I, I I like challenge. Mm-hmm. That's what you want from your leader.
And so someone who leads towards challenge, leans towards challenge is on a
team with a protective leader. Mm-hmm. And you'll be like, what am I supposed
to be doing?
What are [00:15:00] we getting done here? What, we're just one big happy family
in air quotes. Right, right, right. And they're gonna be frustrated because they're
not challenged. Yeah. Okay. And, and vice versa. If you're, if you lean toward
relationship and you're in a dominating culture, you're just gonna one out. Yeah.
Cuz then you just feel like a number. Right, right. Like this is worthless. Yeah.
Yeah. I want to go somewhere that I matter. Right? Yeah. Where I'm
Chris Wood: like effective and like, I was just reading an article, um, talking
about the different generational things. Mm-hmm. And one of 'em was like the
baby boomers, they're all about, um, oh shoot, what was theirs like trying to
create a balance between.
Um, work, work. No. Working hard. That's their thing. Working hard. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Then, then there's our generation who are trying to effectively balance out,
um, work life and home life. Mm-hmm. And then you've got the next generation
that's working. Um, what was it? [00:16:00] They're, they're trying to. They want
to do something or No, it's the gen Zers that always want, they want to have, they
wanna be effective in whatever they do.
They want a purpose behind it. Yes. And I, there's a, there's a, there's a group in
between us, I
Jason Kempf: think, I can't think of what it's, the millennials are between Yeah,
the millennials and
Chris Wood: I can't remember what theirs was, but I was like, oh my goodness.
Like, it's so true, right? Mm-hmm. Everything. But then you take these five voices.
And you put it on any one of those people in that thing, and you add that
Jason Kempf: caveat to it, right? Right. It's like, it's just,
Chris Wood: I struggle to effectively communicate what I'm thinking, let alone
taking on those other parameters. Mm-hmm. And trying to be, so like there's
days I'm not even joking, Jason. Like there's days where I'm like, There's no, hi,
there's, there's no way I [00:17:00] can be a good leader today.
Like, it's just not gonna work. Oh, I know, I know. It's not gonna work. A hundred
percent. Same here, man. I am completely missing the boat.
Jason Kempf: Right, right. Yeah. No, I'm,
Chris Wood: I'm with you, hunter. And I mean, I pro, I mean, I probably lean and
I probably don't lean to the dominant side until I probably get frustrated like we
were talking about last week and Right.
I was like, okay, we need to find the happy medium here between the two of
these. Right, right. So,
Jason Kempf: right. Yeah. Our tendencies have. Understanding. Okay, here's,
here's where I lean. And then recognizing when we're crossing that line right
before we step over it rather than after it. Yeah. Does that make sense?
Right. Of being able to understand our tendencies better and see that coming in
advance rather than mm-hmm. Before it's too late, you know? Yeah. And I, it's
too late. It's too late.
Chris Wood: And I, to that point, right. I think that at some level we also need to
be able to go. I stepped over the line. I'm sorry. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, like, Hey, just so you know, this is what I was trying to get to. I apologize
that, you know Right. I got a [00:18:00] little frustrated with the pos with the
situation. Yeah. I had this happen not too long ago and I apologized to my guys
cuz I was like, you know what? I was, I, I don't know. My team actually
recognized that I was frustrated.
Mm-hmm. And unintentionally I lashed out at some things. Right. Right. And so I
had to go back and fix it and I felt bad about it cuz I, but it was like, there's no
better way to cure this problem except to just go and be real with them. Yeah.
And that's what I did. Right. So I was like, well, I'm trying,
Jason Kempf: I swear.
Yeah. Yeah. If you're on the protective side going, um, uh, I probably lost the
thought now. Okay. Um, if you're on the protective side going, I thought. I had
made that clear. Right. Check your communication. Yeah. And if you're on the
dominating side going, I thought they wanted to win. Mm-hmm. Check your
relational side.
Yeah. Because something something's amiss. Crazy. Part
Chris Wood: is, is like I have a psychology degree. Mm-hmm. And I thought, oh,
that'll help [00:19:00] me communicate more effectively with people. Right, right.
Not a clue. Not, no. And then the coaching that we've done and the coaching I've
done with other people. Mm-hmm. Like I keep thinking, oh, at some point I'm
gonna be able to communicate more effectively.
Yeah. I'm still struggling with the same thing. I mean, I've got more tools on my
tool belt. Right. So I can probably affect, I would say I'm probably communicate a
little bit better than I originally could when I was like a teenager. Right, right, right.
But I would say, I'll say we're better. Yeah. I
Jason Kempf: would still say, but it's not a flip, a
Chris Wood: switch.
We flip 95% of my problem each day is communicating effectively. Right. It's like,
wow, this is fun.
Jason Kempf: Keeps life interesting, doesn't it? It it does, yeah. All right, so
we're gonna wrap up. Um, yeah. You guys, um, you know, if you're out there
going, yeah, I'm, I, I think I'm a dominating leader. Um, hang in there because
we're gonna start talking about the liberating leader soon, of how you can
balance that support and challenge in your life.
Mm-hmm. And really become a leader that's worth following. [00:20:00] Yeah.
And so you guys jump over to the leading and serving.com website. Leave us, uh,
Chris Wood: leave us a, a review. Mm-hmm. And send us a note whether email
or voicemail.
Jason Kempf: Yeah. And you can still jump over to uncommons network.com
and sign up for a peer-to-peer mentoring group.
Right. And join the member, the uncommons membership there. So yeah, I'm
looking forward to it. We would love to have you. Yeah. You guys have a great
day. Hey, enjoy. Go out there and lead and serve for sure. Yeah, let's do it. Fight
for the highest good of others.